Can we build Data Centers fast enough? | Episode 3 - Live at KickStart Europe 2026

In this episode, Andy Davis is joined by co-host Pieter Schaap, Director at Soben (Part of Accenture) to discuss the fact that with RFS timelines shrinking to 12-14 months from construction start, the data centre industry is operating at unprecedented speed.  

But where are the real bottlenecks?  

Joining the discussion:  

Miriam van Kooperen, GreenScale 

Luc Spin, Unica Datacenters 

Together, they explore supply chain constraints, power and infrastructure pressures, and the creative strategies emerging to meet aggressive timelines.  

Recorded live at Kickstart Europe 2026  

Topics: 

• The impact of supply chain bottlenecks on data center project timelines 
• Strategies for building effective supplier partnerships amid uncertainty 
• The role of standardization versus customization in hardware procurement 
• Modularization as a solution for accelerating delivery and reducing risks 
• The influence of sustainability and innovation on procurement decisions 
• How market dynamics have shifted from buyer’s market to high-demand environment 
• The importance of transparency, collaboration, and early planning in project success 
• Quick-fire insights: procurement approaches, balancing deadlines and budgets, and industry collaborations 

https://sobencc.com/ 

https://greenscaledc.com/ 

https://www.unica.nl/expertises/datacenters  

Transcript

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SPEAKER_04 0:00

The data centre industry is moving faster than ever, and behind the scenes, some seriously smart people are making it all happen. Welcome to the Inside Data Centre podcast, where we dive into the stories, insights and innovations driving real change across the industry. From hyperscale campuses to game-changing technologies, we're talking to the people shaping the future of digital infrastructure. Whether you live in Greave Data Centres or just want to understand what's powering our connected world, you're in the right place.

SPEAKER_03 0:26

Hello and welcome to the Inside Data Center podcast, hosted by Andy Davis. And today I'm your co-host, Peter Schraap. We have two amazing guests here at the table. But before we go to our guests, Andy, what's your news of the day?

SPEAKER_04 0:40

I've run out of news for today now, but one thing I'm going to say about events is the amount of industry breaking news that you hear that you're not allowed to reveal yet. So the amount of times I've been told about some investment that's coming and we we want to talk to you in a couple of months, or we're going to announce a major site in a few months. I think that's what's great about events. You hear a lot of the uh the undercurrent of the industry that I can't announce, but I will announce when I can announce. Gigawatt buzz, right? Gigawatt.

SPEAKER_03 1:08

Braggerwatts, as I say. Braggerwatts, that's a good one. Thank you, Andy. So we're coming to you live from Kickstart Europe in Amsterdam. Um, first guest, Miriam van Kopren from GreenScale. Miriam, please introduce yourself.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

Yeah, so my name is Miriam van Kopren. Even though everyone tells me that everyone knows me already, I will still introduce myself. So I work as a senior director for procurement for GreenScale. Pretty new startup in the market, active since November 24, and I'm enjoying my time a lot in just kicking everything off for this new company.

SPEAKER_03 1:45

Thank you. And then we have Luc Spin from Unica Data Centers.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

Luke, the floor is yours. Well, uh Luc Spin, uh VP of sales and marketing for Unica Data Centers. We are a Dutch general contractor, world famous in Holland, but we're also active in Belgium and Germany, Western part of Germany as well. And we design and construct and maintain uh all kinds of data centers, especially for the hyperscalers and the co-location uh players.

SPEAKER_03 2:14

And today we want to touch on some uh interesting topics with some additional focus on procurement and supply chain constraints. So let me kick it off. Well, Andy was saying it just now. The market is doing crazy things at the moment. Uh, we're almost feeling like the neoscalers are trying to take over, disrupting the market, demanding 12 to 14 months RFS from start-of-construction. Um, that's associated with massive risk, but also with opportunities. Uh, Miriam, what do you see as the major bottlenecks to achieve those programs in terms of supply chain?

SPEAKER_00 2:49

Well, everyone wants everything at the same time. So that is definitely the major bottleneck that I see in this market. So it all comes down to me in building partnerships with the markets, um, which is, I must say, a bit harder when you work for a startup uh who doesn't who didn't earn yet uh their colors in the market, right? Luckily, I've been in this role in various companies for a couple of years now, I believe 11 or 12. So I know most of the supply chain, and I'm just trying to build on my past relationships and continue to talk to the market, build those relationships, and hopefully they will run with me uh when the time is uh time is there.

SPEAKER_03 3:39

So, what when you talk about partnerships, does it also mean that um when you have existing relationships and you get them into the into the loop for your new projects that they're willing to allocate capacity for you or already starting fabrication of equipment and whatnot early in the in the project without having real commitments? Because we hear a lot, but a lot of buzz around partnership here and partnership there. But if there's no firm commitment from a client, super difficult to still get traction. How are you dealing with it? Correct.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

Yeah, and I still say um continue to talk, be extremely transparent on what's going on. So I'm not telling nice stories to my suppliers uh to say, oh no, we will be there. Yes, we will be there, but I try to nuance it a bit and make sure that they know exactly what's going on. So they will tell me as well today, everything is fine, we have enough capacity uh to produce for you. But please, tomorrow things can be different. But staying in contact with them, making sure that they tell me when the situation changes, um, tells me enough about the actions I need to take and whether that means making commitments, which is complicated because you have to deal with the company's investors, of course, or whether that means um looking further out in the market to find alternative supply. Um but yeah, open and transparent communication is I think key to everything we do these days.

SPEAKER_03 5:14

Luke, your experience and especially around the MEP side where things can get very, very tense around lead times.

SPEAKER_02 5:20

I recognize the story Mia was telling. Uh we see the same. Uh what today is what normal is today can be completely different tomorrow. Um same story. What was normal yesterday, where you couldn't rely on, shouldn't have been so today. So um um so delivering a data center is a normal thing, but each delivery is a delivery on its own. With all the sp the the project specifics, not in financing or from an MIP stand uh point of view, you have the long lead items, the traditional ones and the gen sets, the transformers and all that, but that's not the critical path nowadays anymore.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

It just yeah, we need to have a discussion later on then that was the case one year ago, two years ago.

SPEAKER_02 6:20

Um but long leads, uh well, we find that we found a solution because if you have a reputation or you're well known, and suppliers are uh okay to invest in you in a relationship. So if we foresee to build a construct data center, we look at the long lead items and we try to secure production slots um from a supplier. So you need to be very transparent with your employer because if you if you're interested in party A or B or C, let's say for bus bars or Transformers or Gen sets, you need to have a shortist approach them and tell actually tell them what your plans are next year. But I don't know my plans next year. I've sort of a clue. So what I'm what we do is try to find a solution in standardizing the long lead items. For instance, a lot of co-location parties have their obligation for the for the capacity of a generator set. They all want 3 MVA or 1.8 MVA, but 2.5 MBA, that's pretty much standard. So don't try to find a unique thing or uh uh keep it at 2.5 because then when we can procure 10 or 20 gen sets 2.5 MBA. Whether that's for you, Miriam, or for another company, and then the lead time isn't a year or more, but it is three months, four months, because we procure in advance at risk.

SPEAKER_03 8:09

So it's more a product-centric approach versus a client specification approach.

SPEAKER_02 8:14

Yeah, because I think that's the angle of of Miriam and the competitors of Miriam. And when she approaches us, I say, guys, make this happen. This is the program. I need to uh I need to have an RFS date in 12 months or so. And I didn't start the construction yet. Okay, that's a challenge. And in a normal approach, it can't be done.

SPEAKER_03 8:37

Well, I think Miriam, uh, when you talk about partnerships, this is something that obviously is happening already, where you are are looking at core capabilities, competencies, but also technical solutions that fit your scheme. Therefore, moving away from your specs and almost incorporating the the vendor specifications, correct?

SPEAKER_00 8:57

Yeah, well, you you sometimes do have to look at this because when timelines are pushed out, you become less flex flexible, uh, and your lead times remain the same. So you have to look at that. However, that's also a very dangerous thing to do because the moment you start changing your specifications, um well, there's a Dutch expression, I guess you cannot just translate it into English, but you throw yourself out to the lions, if you know what I mean. So it is very dangerous as well, because um then you are actually dependent on what others do um in order to bring you this solution. But yes, you have to be creative sometimes.

SPEAKER_04 9:43

I think part of the challenges as well, from from my perspective, looking out in is that the the manufacturers have had to scale at the same time that the industry's scaling, yeah, and at the same time as there's so much new demand. I think during COVID and the the early sort of when it really started to develop, people were saying, Oh, the manufacturers will catch up. Well, they haven't really had the opportunity to catch up, even though they've invested billions into more manufacturing, yeah. At the same time, you've seen continued growth. So you've got that balance of the manufacturer's growth or trying to keep up with growth as well as the customer wanted more capacity, so it's one of the perfect storms, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 10:19

Yeah, and and I I'm fully with Luke when he says standardization does a lot, and it does a lot. Um I I still believe though that it is very hard in Europe to actually standardize. So we all want a reference design, we all want to be able to buy exactly against the same specifications. I don't think it has ever really happened uh in Europe, but um it's also a change in mindset. Uh and I'm I'm working uh a lot with our VP of design, and he is luckily very much of the same opinion. Let's stick as close as possible to the standard specifications that we have set, and with that you definitely yeah, it's Bill, uh it's order to engineer or order to to to suit, huh?

SPEAKER_02 11:09

That's I that's a big question. Uh and we are constructing data centers since 1998. In uh the first ones we did were for telco uh companies, and and they were stored or standardized. But that was in the old days because there was nothing else available. But the data center market exploded, more and more suppliers came up, and each has their own specifics. And if you have a lot of specifics in the market, you think more to choose is is is uh is is great, is it's rich, but it isn't. Because it what's better, we we constructed in 25-30 years we constructed data science, we never constructed a data center the same as one before. It's always a different one. We did 15 projects for Equinix, vaguely known uh party. Um and those 15 projects was not one but the same. But they had global standards. They had global standards. How come I have to construct a different data center?

SPEAKER_00 12:24

So Luke, this brings me back to why the partnership is even more important than standard specifications. Yeah, because if you can work very closely together with your supply chain, if you can inform them very openly and in time that things are changing, transparency. You have to bring them with you along your journey, and I think in the end that is the only way to make it happen.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

And there's another advantage because if you work with partnerships, we we work a lot with partnerships, and it shortens the chain as well. You don't have to involve a lot of parties. You can you can have a solution with two or three or four parties. That alone shortens the time to delivery.

SPEAKER_03 13:08

One of the things that is actually um sort of a paradox in the market at the moment, if you look at the the market seven, eight years ago, it was very much a buyer's market. Yeah, we were going out, we're tendering three, four, five vendors, race to the bottom, everybody's giving big discounts, whatever that's no longer applicable. But our clients, and especially the new clients, they have not changed their behaviors, they're still treating our industry as being a biased market. Both of you are in a very peculiar position where you're trying to satisfy very ambitious programs and very ambitious clients, yeah, but also with quite a static and selective supply chain support base. That is must be extremely difficult to deal with, Miriam.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

It is, but luckily, I would say most of our supply chain is dealing directly with our customers as well, so they know um short of the chain. Yeah, so they know what we have to deal with, and they can actually think with us in solving this. But yeah, you're absolutely right. We are not at all in a buyer's market anymore, so there's such a high demand currently, and um yeah, I always say I kind of feel lucky if people want to work with me these days instead of it being the other way around. Um and then again, I keep on repeating myself, therefore, building those partnerships is really the only way to do it.

SPEAKER_04 14:43

Do you think the industry is more open to partnerships now? Oh, definitely. Because again, if you go back, it was very yeah, we were very siloed, weren't everyone did their own thing, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_00 14:50

I feel a lot of appreciation if you reach out to uh suppliers and start talking about partnerships. In the end, it's good for us, it gives us certainty, but for them it's the same, right? So they can plan a bit better over the coming uh in the last two years.

SPEAKER_02 15:06

If you're not transparent, it'll be a no-bit from our side. So we are selective, not from a commercial perspective, but also with a project's perspective because it has to be doable. Uh and if you find an uh a supplier an employer with all the cards and just and uh telling you nothing, how am I supposed to deliver that project in a proper way? Yeah, because we we have a common goal. Deliver the project as fast as possible, meeting the quality standards uh and the cost. Well, that's sometimes a struggle, but the cost is the cost. Yeah, the cost. Well, actually, um six years ago I changed our commercial approach. We I always work with an open book approach. Always. So I tell my my clients are professionals, me and Miss One also. She knows you know what things are what things cost.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:06

So why should I be why should I do funny about it? So I've an open book, I tell them, uh, and give you an example. We buy a lot of cables each month on length. Uh and I challenge my clients, okay, this is the cost of their of the fiber per kilometer, whatever. If you're able to procure that cheaper, I will eat my left shoe. Uh and I never had to eat my left shoe. Because we we uh we have a great we have a skill of economy for the fiber cabling. But my clients have another advantage on other topics. So combining that being transparent, what what what can you do, what can I do, and whoever is able to do it the best for the project, that's the party who should do it. And that is uh a different way of approaching risks uh because I see investment parties always trying to de-risk the project. So if you want me to buy the fiber cabling, that's de-risking the pro because we've done it before, we buy a lot, we know what to order, so that's de-risking. But for instance, the long lead items, it is a risk to order a gen set in advance. Yeah, there's nothing written uh signature yet, but for the progress of the of the of the project, it's very needy to to uh to order the gen set. That's a risk. But it's if it's a standard Gen set, normally used by a lot of parties in the market, then it's okay for me to procure. Because if the project doesn't work for one party, I can always sell that I don't sell gen sets, but then I have a Gen set available for and everyone is happy with that. So there's no risk for me. But if you're talking to an investor, he's not willing to pay for a Gen Set where when things are not done yet.

SPEAKER_03 18:17

You shared a story with me with me many years ago where you were uh doing pre-fabrication of pump skits, uh and you had a couple of them in the shop standing by to be positioned at different projects. I deny everything. You you had that uh that partnership model already for for many years in place. Yeah. Um modularization has been a topic of discussion over the past years as well. Um it surfaced and it dwindled down again. Now, with the the neoscalers that are so aggressive in terms of timelines, is modularization the way to go? Are you guys seeing more activity in shop and less activity at site? What's what's your your idea around that?

SPEAKER_02 18:56

Well, we see a lot of parties wanting that. Um that for some it's it's more it's a still speech. Um so uh I think it had the proof of the pudding. So I'll take my clients to the shop, show them what we're capable of, uh, because each shop has its limitations. And in all fairness, that fits the project or it doesn't. If it fits, I'll show the clients, tell them this is what we do, these are the guys, these are the names, and if you go on in June and in uh July, we will work for your project starting in September. Then you could talk about okay, but whose risk is that? So it's my labor, it's my cost, or can we share something? And if you know a project is going on in September or November or January, I'm okay when producing it in June or July. Because time is not my problem for my clients, time is their problem.

SPEAKER_03 20:01

And is that something uh that you're seeing, Miriam, whereby there's so much pressure on time that you almost have no other option but to go skin-based or modularization or even volumetric module modules?

SPEAKER_00 20:12

Well, currently we are definitely looking into this because the longer you are actually waiting with ordering, uh, the more you are forced to look at modular solutions. But it's not just time, it's also health and safety. It it there's a lot of positive things around uh looking at modules and it never gets you.

SPEAKER_02 20:39

It never gets cheaper by delaying. So everything you can do in advance, and you if if you have a workshop, then it's easy to say okay. But if if you're sitting around a table and you're discussing this topic, it's great to discuss the topic because in in many projects this is not a topic discussed, which what people are discussing.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

But what I find interesting, so the whole modular thing, so the way this started for me was on the equipment side. So you build a generator in a container and have it delivered to site. Then the next step is is the uh the e-houses, the e-pods. So you build it all in a container, you ship it to site. Now you see that more and more we look into okay, let's look at the scope of the contractor and what he is actually normally doing on site. Can you actually do part of that work into skids, and then you have it in parallel of the construction on site? You have to become more and more creative, really, to meet the the timelines that we have we are given by our customers.

SPEAKER_02 21:45

Almost in every project, in almost every project, the critical part is always the commissioning. Commissioning is always part of the well, the length of the project. So if you can standardize And if you have it earlier on site, we can start commissioning earlier. So it has nothing to do with the Gen Sat and delivery times, it has to do with some other thing, which is important for the time schedule of the project. So fix that to do something else first.

SPEAKER_03 22:21

I I partially agree. I do see that if you look at the ambitious programs that are saying we want to build 100 plus megawatts in 14 months, and everything is on the critical path, and especially your substation, your gas insulated switch gears, your generators, still going to be the big bottleneck. We're a little bit better around cooling at the moment, I feel there's there's some capacity in the market. But it starts with the piling it, Peter. Of course, of course. But here is the here here we come back to the the modelization topic. Um it's not just the health and safety and the quality aspect, it's also the fact that you can do a lot of free commissioning in your shop. Yeah, by minimizing ties, time at sight, minimize the amount of scaffolding required, and and you know, understanding that the interdependencies in a program is something that not a lot of our professionals.

SPEAKER_02 23:14

And there's another big reason to have a workshop. Uh the it's it's minimizing your failures. Because if you work in advance, you make a mistake, you can correct it.

SPEAKER_00 23:27

Or not all, but lots is.

SPEAKER_02 23:29

Because you go, you have a test, level three or whatever, and then you know when it's on site, it's okay. And then we can do next step. When you put it together on site, it has to be done right first time, or else you will lose time. So minimizing that risk is something investors really like.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

Yeah, but don't forget, look, there's still other complications around this because the whole demarcation of the works that you're doing on site, don't forget about that. So you will have to make sure that you put that down. Yeah. So first of all, you need to decide on the procurement strategy on this. Who's buying this? Is it us? Yeah, is it the GC? Is it us telling the GC where to buy it? That's what you said earlier. Where are the demarcanics?

SPEAKER_02 24:15

The transparency in that transparency in that is really important. If you have a strategy telling that this is my OFCI, this is one of what I want to procure, that's that's fine by us. We don't want to maximize our revenues, we want to deliver a great project. And if you're able to procure something way earlier than we, because we are not on board yet and all that, then let's be clear about it, have a great uh have a clear demarcation, uh, and then things will work. Uh instead of discussing, no, that's my part or that's your part.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

Well, in theory, you're right. Uh, in practice, we always see that it's a little more complicated than that, but yeah, it all needs to be figured out. So, the well, let's call it old-fashioned demarcation matrices we had. We will have to re-look them uh and make sure that it works again. Because if you get any clashes on that or discussions on that during construction, it will again delay your project, and that's not the reason for doing this.

SPEAKER_04 25:17

Yeah, and I like the sorry, I just it's also the pressure on the labour, which I think gets forgotten. Yeah, like it's such a pressure on the on the labor force now, and and a lot of these developments are in remote locations, whereas if you can centralize that hiring in a factory somewhere where there is a talent hall already, you can take a lot of that strain off the actual geographic location.

SPEAKER_00 25:37

So and Norway is a great example of that then where where there's not much history of building data centers, so finding enough skilled, especially MEP workers, is hard. So that is one of the reasons as well to look into that because how otherwise do we solve the issue of getting enough workers to site to do the job?

SPEAKER_03 25:59

So definitely talking about old-fashioned that you just touched on. It used to be money talks, right? You're the cheapest in the business, we'll try to award to you because it's a solid business case.

SPEAKER_00 26:09

I was never like that, Peter.

SPEAKER_03 26:11

Have you seen that that moving away from just a commercial aspect of the customer? Um, you you always had safety, quality, uh, and lead time as factors. Well, GreenScale is using sustainability almost as an arbiter to say whether or not you qualify. Are you seeing any other trends in this space?

SPEAKER_00 26:35

I see that this is a trend in the whole market, um, but then there's always a difference between saying you find it important and actually taking this into your procurement process. So I I'm out to tender currently on our reference design equipment, and we have a huge focus there on sustainability, which is asking for EPDs, all that kind of stuff. It is driving up the price. So being sustainable comes with a price, but the high demand comes with a price, and the focus currently on delivering in time, which is, I believe, the most important thing we see in the market, has an impact on the price. So the best way to solve that is to make sure that whatever you do is interesting for both you and me, and then you work together, not against the lowest cost as we had seen them like years ago, but still it's a good outcome for both parties. And if you have a good outcome for both parties, well, you're well, let's call it safe moving forward.

SPEAKER_03 27:41

Yeah, Andy, shall we go to some quick fire for questions?

SPEAKER_04 27:47

Yeah, let's do it.

SPEAKER_03 27:48

Uh-oh. So uh 10 questions each. Uh Andy will ask questions to Miriam. I will ask Luke some questions. Okay. Select one, please. Select one answer.

SPEAKER_00 27:59

We have to explain why we select the answer, or we're just good to go. If you want to come back to start the answer, you can do it.

SPEAKER_03 28:04

Is it a yes or no thing? You'll find out. Okay, so now you'll be.

SPEAKER_04 28:08

And as I always say, Peter is responsible for the question. So any questions after that. Okay, good to know. Good to know, I will. Okay, we'll start. Direct equipment procurement or turnkey solutions?

SPEAKER_00 28:20

Direct equipment procurement.

SPEAKER_04 28:22

Strict project deadlines or flexible budgets?

SPEAKER_00 28:32

Strict deadlines.

SPEAKER_04 28:33

So both. Are you an early bird or a night owl? Both. Standardized components or custom-built innovations?

SPEAKER_00 28:42

Standardized components.

SPEAKER_04 28:43

A massive spreadsheet or a quick phone call?

SPEAKER_00 28:46

Oh, quick phone call. 100%.

SPEAKER_04 28:49

Don't send me a spreadsheet. Anyone listening, don't send me a spreadsheet. Stroopwaffles or croissants.

SPEAKER_00 28:55

Sorry, I did not have a Stroopwaffles.

SPEAKER_04 29:02

The English in me, I can't pronounce it. Supply chain stability or cutting edge tech?

SPEAKER_00 29:07

Supply chain stability.

SPEAKER_04 29:09

A beach holiday or a city trip?

SPEAKER_00 29:11

City trip combined with some days of beach holiday.

SPEAKER_04 29:15

I think we all need a beach holiday with the weather at the moment, don't we? Everyone in Europe is desperate for the beach. Unless you went to Hawaii recently. Concrete or steel?

SPEAKER_00 29:23

I have no preference.

SPEAKER_04 29:25

The thrill of the deal or the piece of a finished build.

SPEAKER_00 29:29

Oh, the thrill of the deal.

SPEAKER_04 29:31

Your tenor done.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Well done.

SPEAKER_03 29:33

Thank you, Miriam. Luke, there we go. No. Procurement or commercial management? Procurement. Mentoring a newbie. Mentoring a newbie or managing a veteran. Mentoring a newbie. Golf or cycling? Golf. Sustainable sourcing or speed of delivery? No no no. The first one. Team collaboration or solo focus? No no team. Team? Team. Yeah, building a building as a team effort. The occasional first or forever second place. The occasional first. Data center or a skyscraper? Data center. A paper notebook or a digital app? No, a paper notebook. Complicated problem or a simple solution?

SPEAKER_02 30:35

Complicated.

SPEAKER_03 30:37

And then are you a podcast guest or a podcast listener? Uh podcast listener. From today, you're a podcast. Anything that either of you want to come back to? Now is the time.

SPEAKER_00 30:53

No.

SPEAKER_03 30:54

No. Thanks for having us, guys. Thanks for coming on. Great discussion.

SPEAKER_00 30:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:58

That brings us to the end of the podcast. So thank you very much. Miriam for Copert, Greenscale, Luke Spin, Unica Data Centers. Thank you for tuning in. And thank you, Andy, for a wonderful time as always. Cheers.