Andreas Beck, Managing Director, Zauner: The evolution of Data Center construction

On this episode I am joined by Andreas Beck, Managing Director of Zauner. We discuss the ever changing face of data center construction: What it looks like today, and what we can expect in the future.

Andreas shares how he started his career and how he entered the world of data centres. We discuss the importance of getting a varied experience in your early years and how experience in other technical sectors can benefit your long term career.

We discuss the growth of the data centre sector and how Zauner were first able to enter this market. We cover why the sector has grown, the challenges of building data centres, and how the sector will evolve in the coming years.

Finally, Andreas shares some insights into the DC market, and some advice on how you can develop a career in the sector.

Learn more about Zauner here - Home - Zaunergroup

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:29

Welcome to the Instagram Data Podcast. Today I'm joined by Andreas Beck, Managing Director of Zorna. Good morning, Andreas. Good morning, Andy. Great to be in your podcast.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

Thanks for today.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

No, yeah, exactly. We've been planning it for a while, so it's good to finally get this one recorded. Looking forward to obviously hearing a bit about your career and how you established yourself in the industry, but also quite a key point, I think, is talk about your experience in the construction aspect of data centers, but also your experience in other sectors and how we can learn from how we build in pharmaceutical and other mission critical sectors and bring that into the world of data centers. Before we go into all that, do you just want to give a quick introduction of who you are and what your role is at Zauner?

SPEAKER_02 1:16

Oh, absolutely. So my name is Andreas Beck. I'm the managing director of Zauner. So Zauner is a family-owned business. We are in the business now for 25 years. It's still the maturity is owned by the family. So I have a co-managing director, Roman Zauner. He's also in the business. And we have been ever since uh like an industrial ME contractor. So I started to work in 2003 after the after engineering school as a piping engineer that was back then with another firm. I started probably was, I don't know, three days in the office and then they sent me to some site in Germany, which was quite a good experience. Yeah. I quickly learned uh you know how things are going and I took a lot of lessons from that. So my first task was to measure pipe supports. So they installed a lot of pipe supports in the building, uh probably, I don't know, 20,000 pipe supports. Um, but somehow they forgot in the process of installing all them supports to measure them properly. So they didn't have proper records. So my task was for the first six months, you know, produce the records, get them ready for a green measure. But it was a great experience. So I did a few years as a project engineer, and then I got promoted to project manager. Um and um it was mainly into in pharmaceutical. That was the really the where I started off my career, and it was now close. So nine and a half years ago, uh, when I joined Sauner, I joined them as head of project management. I think you know, time was time was right, was a good opportunity. And also the the the business within Sauner. I did a lot of work previously in power plant business, energy sector, and it was around about that time when basically the industry there was dead. There was no work there anymore. They didn't build any new gas or coal fire power plants. Uh was just no no longer the time. And they were on the lookout for you know some some new ideas and new industries, new businesses, and then I joined them. And since uh 2022, I'm now managing director. Uh I also have uh I'm an RT shareholder. And yeah, no, I think it's it's a great company. I like the the family-run business. Uh it's I think we're still quite flexible, although we have grown quite a bit in size. Uh we try to keep it that way. I think that's a big advantage also for our clients. They can always reach to us out directly, and that's you know, still very much hands-on in the business. I think that's a good that's a good thing to describe it.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

Yeah, yeah, definitely always always good to keep your hands hands dirty, as I always say. Well, absolutely. I think you know that's how you make a difference.

SPEAKER_02 3:56

That's how you can also continue conversations with clients. So, for example, I've been in in Denmark yesterday visiting a client, and I feel it's still very important that you know, you know, what's going on on the project, and what are the issues, and are you getting on progress-wise, why are you roughly and follow the the steps throughout the the life cycle of a project? So you can always you know engage in a discussion, otherwise they feel okay, you just hear you know for a nice chat and have a coffee, and then you move on, but you don't really care. I think it's all about caring and also around people. I think they like that you care and that you listen to them, and then I mean, the uh everybody can do it when it's all going well, but you know, as as projects continue, there are their issues, and when you listen to people and support them with clearing the issues, then I think that that was making the difference.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

Yeah, definitely. Um and when did you first get exposure to data centers? You obviously touched on that your background was pharmaceutical and you moved into it. So when did you first enter this crazy world?

SPEAKER_02 4:54

Yeah, I think the the when I started with souner, uh we looked a bit on you know what other industries could there be because power plant the industry was dead. So we said obviously pharmaceutical because of the background, that's an area we only want when I move in, and that's what we pretty much did straight away. And then the other one was said, okay, so like in the power plant business, one thing you do is you install large carbon steel pipework. So, you know, what could be another industry needing for uh having the need for large uh carbon steel pipework? And obviously, that's data centers. Uh it might not be steam, but it's obviously chilled chilled water, and that's where we said, okay, we want to go into the industry. Uh that was probably 2015. Uh it took us another few months until we got really you know in contact with the right guys, with the right GCs back in in the time. You know, we started uh getting some visits, audits, uh, some pre-qualifications, many pre-qualifications at the beginning, but it's very difficult to get into a new industry. And they were all saying, you know, great guys, you know, what are your references? And we told them, well, okay, we know how to install a pipe. Yeah. But then they said obviously they need somebody with data center experience. And that was quite tough. So it took us from 2016 until 2019 when we signed uh our first large project uh in the industry. Fair enough, we have been busy with other stuff, so maybe we didn't put all the focus on it. I think it's it's a process because the clients, you know, they like people who know the industry, they have references and all things are going. And I think time was just right then, 2019. Client there was was open for a new company. Um, they were quite supportive, and obviously that was the start uh into the data center industry. And it was it's for us as a company, it's great that we did it there.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

Yeah, and it's it's interesting as well because one thing I always say is that the data center sector was a closed shop, so it was very difficult for anybody to get into this industry, whether it's a company looking to get into it or an individual looking to get into it. But as the industry has got busier and busier, there comes a necessity where they need to look outside, and then and what they get when they look outside is actually fresh ideas and fresh organizations and ways to do things differently.

SPEAKER_02 7:05

Yeah, I think the the so back around 2019-20, there was quite a boom of data centers, and that's when they opened up to said, you know, we have this couple of contractors and a couple of agencies, and a couple of, you know, that but you're not gonna be able to deliver all these projects in the same time. But that's what they were what the this just they say the first wave of you know newbies to the industry, which we were part of, which was a great time. Um, and I think it's it's you know, you look at it differently, you see, okay, uh, you know, we always did it like this, but maybe there is another way to it. And um, I think the you know, with with the with the projection of workload, that's the only way to go. It's impossible just to keep the amount of of work going if you just stay the same. I think we we also see see that when we look for for new talent, uh so let's say our main businesses is life sciences, data centers, and then battery factories. But if we if you say now, okay, let's say we need a project manager, and if we say, okay, we would only take a project manager from one of these three industries, then you know that's that's impossible. Yeah, you might find a guy, but it takes very long and it's very difficult, then you need to convince him to because he most likely works for somebody else who is also very busy because that's the industry, these industries are very busy. So we look at other industries, for example, oil and gas. We have a lot of people who work previously in oil and gas. So oil and gas has high requirements for quality, safety, schedule, but it's just the fact that it's not so busy. So we're saying them, okay, guys, maybe you don't you're not the experts on data centers, but you're great experts on ME skill set. And if you come to us, you can you can learn the ins and outs of the industry, and then you will be a great asset to us.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

I think that's that's the way to go. Definitely, yeah, I totally agree. And again, I think it's out of necessity that we have to do that as well, because we all know that the industry is getting busier and busier, but the talent pool is very much staying the same. And unless we start to look outside and bring people into the sector, and also it's a a lot of people want to get into the sector right now because they can see that it's busy. So now's the time to do it. But you do have to do what I'm sure you have done, and that is invest time and invest money and educate and train these people to bring them up to speed to the critical sectors. Yeah, and you probably see that even more with the recruiting business.

SPEAKER_02 9:26

Uh, if you would just always look for people already in the industry, then you know that you wouldn't be able to properly do the job, just you know, lack of candidates. That's and I think it's all about, as you say, training, you know, getting them closer to you know what's the difference in the industry, what are the requirements, and then setting the project up that obviously there should be in every project an expert in that field so you can you know train the bodies and um they can learn from each other.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

Yeah, definitely. And from a construction aspect, what what have you seen and what have you been able to bring into the into data centers that you you maybe utilize in other industries? And how have the customers been receptive to these new ideas?

SPEAKER_02 10:07

Yeah, so I think, for example, if you compare life science to data center industry, so in life science, the specifications are much more thorough, they're much more into the details on, let's say, the likes of a pipe or a cable. It's it's pretty much specified to the nuts and bolts, which obviously helps later on down the line to avoid any issues. So, and I think on data centers, the it's a bit more, I was a bit more flexible. Uh they said maybe okay, you need a carbon steel pipe, shed 10, and that's that's what we want. But on a pharmaceutical project, it would be, you know, this is the pipe, this is the ball sickness, uh, this is the paint code, and so on. So, really all the details, but obviously it helps that not, you know, eight months down the line somebody comes along and says, Okay, that's this is not the paint code I wanted. I think what we brought to the to the table is that with the knowledge, we try to really specify these things properly, make sure that there are no different understandings. And if there is a difference in opinion, you know, try to settle it at the beginning, get it right, and avoid any larger issues uh later on down the line. Um, I think if if you if you compare it, the probably the level of detail in construction and workshop drawings is also different in let's say in pharmaceutical, because later on validation and so on, it's much more important on the S-built drawings. I think that's that's also a learning. On the other side, I think data center industry is much more advanced on collaboration, BIM design, and how different trades work together. That's still quite uncommon in life science. And I think life science could participate quite a bit from from the BIM coordination done in data centers. I think that's a great advantage, you know, trades working together, and how could we construct this better? How can we optimize it?

SPEAKER_01 11:56

You know, yeah, definitely. And I and over the time you've been in the sector, obviously we've seen an uh we all thought 2019 was busy, like we said earlier, but then 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, and now we're in 2024, and we we just don't know where this is ending. But how has the kind of the scale of the industry changed, how you work and and your opportunities really?

SPEAKER_02 12:20

Yeah, I think the the as you see that there was a quite a big boom around 19 and 20. Um, then it got a bit uh so I think at the hyperscaler scalers didn't build as much in the last uh two years, but what we can see now, uh as you said, is there is a massive boom coming, uh or it's already on on its way, uh obviously fueled by all the AI systems and all the technology. And what we're also seeing is the that the projects have the tendency to get bigger and bigger. We talked about it the the other day in the company. So 2018, we did sign a contract of around 40 million euros, and was back then the biggest contract we signed ever. Yeah, it was quite, you know, we celebrated in the company and said, you know, this is a this is a great achievement. Uh and now recently, two weeks ago, we signed a new contract for uh actually a data center in Germany, near Frankfurt, and was just shy of 35 million. So really close to you know what was a couple of years ago, our biggest contract ever. And it's now it's a standard project because the projects are just growing in size. Uh they're getting faster. So the the the trend certainly is projects are getting bigger and bigger. And the so as I said, 2018, our biggest project we ever completed was around 40 or design was 40 million, and uh, so now we're doing a project in Switzerland, it's around 150 million. So you know things are changing. Obviously, the company changed quite a lot in the last couple of years. Uh that's that's said as well, but also the projects across all the industries, but especially on data centers, it's just growing, going faster, bigger. Um, I mean it's a positive trend, it's great, yeah. Um, but obviously, the it would also be great if you know they could align that they do they don't do all the projects at the same time, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

But that's exactly, yeah. And how you you touched on speed and scale, and it's always what I talk about. When people ask me like how how has the industry evolved, it is all speed and scale, and obviously capital, but capital comes with the speed and the scale, really. How how have you had to adapt as scales and speed has increased? And are you able again? Are you able to bring learnings from the the other sectors you worked in that obviously have that scale and already you operate in a significant scale in pharmaceutical? Is it similar to data centers?

SPEAKER_02 14:47

Yeah, I think the what we always had in pharmaceutical was the criticality for time to market, because there it's obviously you want to get the medicine to the patient as soon as possible. That's that's what counts. And sometimes you know, pharma companies they have a patent and they want to maximize the use of the patent. So it's all about the schedule. I think the the experience was there, and uh, the other element is certainly whatever can be done, pre-construction and offsite fabrication, they they are success elements on on fast speed uh construction projects. So we so I think the the difference now is so a couple of years ago, everybody talked about you know how we can do it, modularized offsite fabrication, but it was more talk than actual happening. While it's now that the clients they're really on board, they're really pushing for it, they are really allowing also the time and the investment into a proper pre-construction, proper design. Uh I think that's that's the way to go. And you can so you can do so much offsite. Yeah, so we have a couple of big workshop facilities uh spread across Europe where we're doing large modules for different industries, and that's the way to go. You solve so much time. Uh, it's that's I think what needs to happen in any case for uh projects of that speed, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

Yeah, definitely. And you're seeing it more and more that in my conversations, and I'm sure in your conversations and some of the listeners with with those cloud hyperscale organizations, it's all about modularity now. And yeah, they're looking at it themselves, they're they've got these huge manufacturing facilities coming online and in the states that are going to produce modular components for their own facilities. So it's it's always been talked about, and I'm sure you agree. And if I listen back to pods, if I listen back to podcasts probably three and a half years ago, people were talking about it but not doing it. Now they're talking about it and doing it, that's the difference.

SPEAKER_02 16:39

Yeah, I agree. Yeah, it was it was a lot of intention, but not actually happening. But I think now they're also they're eager to keep certain designs frozen, you know, to clone a project and not just reinvent the wheel every time again. Yeah, that's the I think.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

No, definitely. And and another point I want to touch is technology and how technologies come into construction. Uh it's a really big, it's a really big opportunity to attract talent, I think, when you start talking about virtual reality and stuff like that, where you know it's not it's not just builders on site anymore. Construction is a is an amazing technological industry. So what have you seen, what have you seen come in? And do you think there's other aspects that will come in over the next few years?

SPEAKER_02 17:22

Yeah, I think it's it's an interesting development. I remember a few years back, you know, that there was a discussion, you know, simple stuff like a well dog, yeah, should it be on paper or to be put in a system? I so much work on putting it into the system. But I think luckily the and also COVID contributed to that. So that this discussion is now part of the past. So it's now all about you know, you have your virtual project, you have a you have a big dashboard, and that's where you need to have all your stats. You need to control your project from the dashboard. Um, in addition to that, always you said virtual reality. So we have a guy here, he's doing you know laser scans of projects, like live progress data of the project. So you see actually in the model, that's the design, that's the installation percentage complete, and that's the way to go. Um, that's the issues, hindrances. You can do live team sessions with clients or with the engineering team, and not everybody needs to go to the site. I think the what happened a few years ago is there was so much traveling for unnecessary traveling, yeah, which now can be avoided. Yeah, we need to use the modern things of technology. Um, the probably now two years ago, we started up the department, we call it digital construction. Uh so we obviously we started with a guy, but not so this department has grown quite significantly. And now we actually are now on the verge of a new transformation again in the company just to make a big digital hub because that's the way to go. All is about data. So there's so much data, but always you need to work with the data, and you can only work with data if it's controlled, if it's properly visualized, and if somebody can analyze the data because you know you can have great dashboards, but if nobody's working on it to analyze them, then what's the point? And I think that's that's certainly the way to go. Um, I can see that the we're looking at some a few other things right now in terms of how can we use the data, for example, to incentivize our workforce. We have all the data, we have all the hours, we have the progress. We can see, you know, who is working, who gets more progress done, who gets less progress done, well quality, and so on. And we want to not transfer this also into workforce incentive. So, you know, guys who are performing well should see that there is a difference to lower performance. And um, I think around AI, I mean, we all have you know tried out ChatGPT or co-pilot and Microsoft. I think there are tools now out on the market already, and we are in a trial phase at the moment, which is really construction application focused. So you can really, you know, take out your phone and just ask your co-pilot or whatever the name is, then you know, on this drawing, on this submitle, you know, look for details, or is there a change order relating the subject, and then the actually comes up with a message. So it's much faster. And I think the it just it helps on one hand unnecessary time, and on the other hand, uh, I think it's also sometimes you know, if you have a million documents and you just you can't find it. Uh it's impossible. Yeah, you don't know how to build a third string which actually gets you the right answer, but with AR, I think that's possible. And then the the uh another interesting aspect is the the um the co-pilot from Microsoft. So we this the new application is if you go on a Teams call and you transcribe the Team's call after the Team's call, you get a full set of minutes of meeting. Any notes you could take it references on you know on which time of the meeting, who said what, and what was the conclusion, what are the tasks, what are the action items, and is anything open, outstanding. So I think it's fantastic because you know we can we you know we have all been in these meetings scribbling down some notes and then afterwards painful, you know, writing up the minutes and how what did he say exactly, and how how how did he mean that? And that's just uh I think that's a game changer, and that's an advantage for everybody, yeah. Because then quite often you, you know, you know, you see you're in a meeting, then you get some notes, and then Jesus, no, I didn't say that.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

Exactly. Or if you're like me, you can't read your notes anyway, so you write them down.

SPEAKER_02 21:38

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so I think that's uh that's a big help. And um I think people shouldn't be afraid of AI. I think it's just uh a support for the work. Um we still need to do all the uh the the hard works on site, you know, they won't they won't go away. But sometimes, you know, useless, senseless uh work can.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

be substituted and you know we can look at something else and projects need to they need to be done quicker faster more efficient and that's that's a big help no yeah totally agree on ai I think um ai replaces the tasks that we we don't want to do as well look there's a lot of tasks administrative tasks we don't want to do and also we're not it's not the best use of our time so it gives you the opportunity to put your time you've got you that example that you've given you know writing up the notes of a team score it saves you say 10 15 minutes whatever it is but it's it's 10 10 15 minutes times however many team scores you have that week and what does that and what time that gives you is the opportunity to do probably what you're good at and what you enjoy and that's what we're all here for in it we all want to enjoy ourselves and oh absolutely yeah admin's not one of those tasks we want to be doing yeah then you know you you you know you push it down to the end of the week and then end of the week you have a long list of works to go and then you want to do it before Monday so you know these things can be can be a word yeah definitely and it always it's always ironic I think whenever I talk of do podcasts and we talk about using data in the data center industry it's like our the the the product of what we're doing is can change everything. If we use the date use the data you've got to make you better but all that data that's coming is uh stored in a data center.

SPEAKER_02 23:19

And when you think about it every business is having the same conversation how can we storm how can we you know get more data to use to make us more efficient yeah it's a win-win for us oh absolutely yeah and I think the you know we the the we have seen that now in the last year or so that the development yeah it's fascinating and you know it will be quite interesting to see where it goes obviously we can see already that there are a lot of trends and it's hard to follow all the trends and even if you have let's say quite a good idea maybe one guy is you know he he gets up with the idea and tries to you know how could it be implemented but then the next step is to how to roll it out in the business yeah so they know how can a standard user then benefit from from the technology so I think that's that will be the biggest changes how can we get our teams to work with the tools and how can we train the tools and how can we make them work because the greatest tool if if you don't know how to handle it then it's of it's of no use. So these will be the challenges you know the it will be key to have good people who can roll out new tools new programs work with data and you know get people on board and show them how to use it and how to to work with it.

SPEAKER_01 24:30

Yeah definitely and before we move on to some sort of more industry related questions what's what's the future look like for Zauna then what what's on the horizon? Any is it more of the same or have you got have you got other stuff to come?

SPEAKER_02 24:43

Yeah I think the uh we are quite interesting industries yeah they're all the trends of the future so obviously we you know we want to stick uh to the pharmaceutical life science industry that's it's a great industry we're in and we can at the end help to you know get get medicine to patients faster so that's that's obviously what we want to keep there data center I think is our second biggest industry um it will probably the percentage of share on the overall turnover will grow over the next few years that's just the trend we're seeing um and obviously I think we we have a certain flexibility in the business that you know we we can move also the that their shares percentages on turnover to whatever industry has more demand and more need. We also work as I said battery battery factories um that will continue EVs that there will always be a need but it will be less of importance to the business compared to other industries we do also a bit of work in semiconductor uh there are some blockbuster projects uh on the horizon there uh across europe but it will also be a bit similar like the battery um manufacturing a more niche uh industry we're also doing some interesting stuff like uh the uh direct air capture project in Iceland totally different yeah uh but also great in terms of uh sustainability aspect there so they so they suck CO2 from air and pump it into the ground basically with a long process and it gets to a granular version later on and we built a plant there I think it's it's a fantastic industry obviously I don't know what the future will bring um that they have a few big projects now in in in America and we'll see how the development is in Europe but certainly interesting I think that that you know if they if they can develop the this technology on a larger scale that could benefit everybody yeah exciting times ahead yeah yeah as a company we try to stay focused on new opportunities new industries um I think the that's always important to see what what else is going on and keep an eye open I think what we learned from when I when I joined the company and there was a pure focus on these power plants we want to get into the same situation again we want to have you know multiple industries and well positioned or this brings us in a in a good future yeah definitely I always say and it's it's kind of part of my role in in our company is that sort of market scanning you know future scanning what's coming what what's what's happening and whether that's related specifically to data centers or like you say or similar industries you can find it out you know if you're listening you can find this stuff out you know do some digging and you can always see what what's probably coming in the future if you see the vibes yeah you see the trends and uh it's important to follow them yeah it's not you don't need to take on every new trend but it's important to know about them I fully agree that's definitely that makes a difference yeah definitely and before I let you go and get on with your day just some sort of more quickfire questions on on the industry and to get to get your views number of challenges in the sector at the moment there always is there's always a different one every time I I talk to someone but what do you think are the key challenges we face as we head through 2024 yeah so I would say it the it's a combination probably of three challenges one is the the the large amount of projects at the same time then the limited amount of uh companies able to work in in the in these industries and then the third challenge is a as a result of that is just the shortage in workforce which on one hand is driven by just the amount of work uh out there and the other what you can also see is that I think construction is an exciting industry but it somehow seems that it's very difficult to motivate the new generation for the construction industry because uh at the end quite often you have to travel because the projects are never you know in front of the company so they're somewhere across uh Europe in our case then they're demanding there's a lot of pressure from the client and at the end then uh there are a lot of hours so I think the it's it's a challenge the to to motivate uh enough of the new generation but I think it's you know once you're in the industry I think it's it's it's amazing yeah you can you can really see that whatever you're doing in engineering or in procurement or in project management it's actually it's being built and you can see something great is happening so we try obviously to encourage uh we have a lot of students here and trainees and get them close to to the work and hope that you know they will be part of the journey.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

Yeah it's it's a really good point and I think and and you're an example as well I always say to to people yeah get get the young good generation close to the projects give them that exposure on site because anybody that has had that exposure early in their career tends to do well whereas if they whereas if they are sat in a design office or estimating or whatever it is or or in finance and they never actually see the project they can quickly lose interest in the sector and go and do the same role somewhere else but there's not many industries where you do get to sort of live and breathe the product at the end of it.

SPEAKER_02 30:08

No and I mean every project is different every site is different so it's not that like you know if you're in a machine factory car maker that it's probably a standard product on and on it's it's like even if the same project is being built in a different location you know people are different it's all about you know how people are getting on it's about site locations it's a totally different project yeah so it's always interesting every new project has its own challenges and then you know you never know about the environment you know political aspects they can all influence our project uh goes on yeah yeah definitely and now a lot we talked about you get to use the the latest greatest tech as well which is a big game changer for younger people absolutely and I think the you know that's the the features they want to use and they want to go for and we try to promote them we go to only universities to engineering schools and we show them you know that's that's how we work and that's what you can do when you come to us I think yeah we need to do that you know it's it's it's our responsibility for the industry to to get out and promote that even though the the candidate might go to some of the competition but it's still to motivate people for the industry I think that's important.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

Yeah totally agree it's an industry challenge not a company challenge and that's that's how you that's how you have to look at it. Couple more questions if you could ask everyone in the sector to start or stop doing one thing what would it be?

SPEAKER_02 31:28

Yeah I think the as I said before it would be ideal if they sequence their workload a bit better yeah not everybody's building at the same time but obviously that's that was impossible because demand scales up at the same time for similar reasons uh but obviously that that would have that would be ideal yeah I don't think people all would consider that as well because obviously I see it because part of our job is to work with different organizations who are kind of all at the same the same point of a project but I don't think people see it they just see growth growth there's more projects coming there's more projects coming but there's like like you said there's not it's not an endless amount of companies that can deliver these projects and and companies like yourselves endless amounts of projects you only have so much ability to deliver. We only want to sign up for work which we are confident that we can deliver yeah I think you know one bad project can damage the reputation of 10 great projects yeah easily so it's very important to focus on what you're capable of delivering and I think that the challenge obviously is that everybody believes its own data center is more important so it will be impossible to sequence it.

SPEAKER_01 32:41

But that certainly if I would have a wish free then this this would be it yeah yeah definitely and final question if you could give one piece of advice to anyone looking to work in the sector what would it be? Yeah I think you know if if you want to be part of something exciting very demanding but also equally you know uh interesting unique that this is the way to go I think don't be hesitant if you know you you work in another industry or you haven't had any experience um I think the the the companies like like us we're open people from other industries uh we give good training but then it's it's it's it's quite exciting and then obviously even it's also great at home you know you're building this large uh hyperscale data center for also we can't talk about it yeah but at home you know nobody can prohibit you to share among your friends you know building this great data center for this and this company yeah I think this is exciting yeah it's companies who everybody knows uh yeah definitely and I think uh and just on a on a positive for you for you guys really I think you're a great example of a company that does bring people in from other sectors and I have to have this conversation with some organizations when they say we need someone with five years data center experience you say you don't you just need the right person and you need to to put the time and investment into getting them into the sector so well done to you guys for doing it because it is really important we do need more people from other industries to build these things no that's a that's a great feedback appreciate it and I think obviously everybody would like to have people with a lot of experience in the industry but it's just not it's just not how it's going to work yeah no definitely thanks for time really enjoyed the conversation thanks for time as well Andy good organization how can someone get hold of you if they want to learn more about Zaono or just you know get in touch with yourself yeah I think the you know through LinkedIn is always an option and on our website we have all the open positions and even if the specific position might not be on our website we you know we we hire throughout the year on most of the positions so just apply for a job we're also quite open to any uh individual position and then you always get a feedback from our HR department uh so yeah and we'll put the website in the show notes if anyone can't can't find it they can they can see it there but thanks to time we'll catch up again good stuff thanks to all we tool see each other around the world for absolutely take care bye bye bye